A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

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A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby r5gordini » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:39 pm

Hi All,

I have just returned from Origine RS! Thank you to Stephen Dell, Simon Taylor, etc., etc. for all their fabulous organisation of the event. I can't wait to go next year!

I've been experiencing real problems with the rear brakes on my A610. On the way home, the right rear overheated quite badly - made horrible rubbing noises and was smoking when I stopped to check.

The problem is weird in that it seems intermittent and I have (as yet) been able to trace the fault. The caliper feels like it's on quite a bit and is enough to bring the car to a halt when coasting.

On the way to ORS, it all seemed fine. However, it dragged during the event and also on the short drive to the hotel afterwards. Then overheated after about an hour of driving today.

Here's what I have done so far:

Calipers reconditioned by Bigg Red
New flexi-hoses all round
Handbrake backed right off on its adjuster

Once the brake has cooled off it appears to work properly. Stopping on a hill, the car will roll. Handbrake on, car doesn't roll. Handbrake off, car rolls nicely.
Footbrake on, car doesn't roll. Footbrake on, car stops. Off, car rolls. Behaves normally.

It seems to be something to do with it getting hot and then sticking on more and more. I did notice some rust on the outer portion (inboard) of the disc. Probably due to the caliper not working properly in the past.

Any suggestions as to what to do next?

Thanks,

Andrew
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby r5gordini » Sun Oct 01, 2017 1:46 pm

Oh and I have replaced the sliding caliper bolts at the top of each caliper.
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby BIG_MVS » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:21 pm

Had a similar thing last year. Mine would make a really bad rumbling sound a bit like a driveshaft going. It must have been grabbing on hard to make the drive shaft wobble.

Changed the caliper completely and it's been fine since (touch wood). I see you have had yours refurbed, maybe there is something wrong with the caliper that new seals will not fix....
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby pgoldsmith » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:26 pm

This may or may not help but..
I've had issues some years ago on intermittent brake binding. It seemed related to brake pad wear, i.e. when pads get worn and the pistons are extended then they started to bind on.
At the time I didnt / couldnt afford to refurb the caliper, so I simply retracted the pistons and fitted new pads. Binding issue then disappeared until pads got worn again; though in recent times I havent suffered the same issue.
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby BIG_MVS » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:28 pm

Good point well made. I also replaced my pads for new ones at the same time. They were the correct Bosch ones which I got from Mr Metters where they don't wear unevenly.

Did you replace your pads at the same time as the calipers Mr Gordini?
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby r5gordini » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:01 pm

Thanks guys!

It may well be the pads. I wonder if the pads have worn unevenly due to the faulty caliper in the first place and are now sticking. More so than other times... Or that the pads wear unevenly anyway.

I didn't know that there was a Bosch set, so I ordered a set of Mintex ones earlier this afternoon. My own conclusion was that it could be the pads!

It would explain the intermittent nature of it - if the pads aren't straight in the carriers due to uneven wear - and yes, I got the rumbling sound.

Will the Mintex do? I won't mind changing them frequently at £16/set! I think I'll just shove them in and see if they fix the issue - then I can source the correct Bosch ones if necessary?

Thanks guys - I was/am a bit worried about the issue. Otherwise, the car was pretty much faultless this weekend. Problems with the power steering caused by low fluid and a slight reluctance to start a couple of time were the only issues - the first major drive since all the work on the ECU and wiring, etc..

Andrew
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby phildini » Mon Oct 02, 2017 6:41 am

Andrew

I may well be the pads, I recall fitting Citroen XM pads ( at the time I could not find correct 610 pads ) and I remember them being slightly larger and I had to trim a bit off.
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby r5gordini » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:57 am

Cool - thanks Filippo. I'll give it a go!

Thoroughly enjoying the car. It did me proud at the weekend.

Andrew
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby mettersl » Tue Oct 03, 2017 8:15 am

How old are the handbrake cables?
On my red 610, I had a problem with the cable not retracting against the spring...and I had already had a new Caliper.
A new brake cable on that side cured it.
Of course they aren’t cheap...
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby rupert » Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:03 am

Also, try loosening the handbrake cable adjuster (by the base of the pull handle) a little to make sure the pads are fully retracted. But obviously not so much that the handbrake doesn't work.
The handbrake should have about nine or ten clicks before it is on as I recall to make sure they release fully.
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby r5gordini » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:32 pm

Thanks guys...

The saga continues. Replaced both rear discs and fitted new pads. I used EBC Ultimax. I know there are mixed reviews of these pads but I thought I'd give them a go.

I also greased the sliding pins as I wondered whether they were binding.

Now they are worse than ever! Both sides are binding. I just don't know what to do. I got home just now to roasting rear brakes. I even cracked off a bleed nipple to see if that would free the caliper. Nope.

I also completely disconnected the handbrake by removing the cables from one of the calipers.

I checked that the brake pads fit. They do. They fit very nicely and slide easily in the carriers. I wonder. Do I just HAVE to get the Bosch pads?

Any other suggestions?

As a recap:

Refurbished calipers
New sliding pins
New pads
New discs
New flexi hoses
Handbrake disconnected
Bleed screw opened

... what next? It's stopping me enjoying/using the car.

Andrew
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby Custard » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:11 pm

They are a nightmare, I have found apart from all of the above have you removed cleaned and packed the sliding pins on the carrier with new grease, take out the pads and the carrier should move from side to side easily, check them to make sure they are round, as as they get older they get trapped because they are no longer a tight fit in the sleeve so they jam.
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby GeoffB » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:08 pm

What kind of brake fluid are you using?
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby JohnC » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:40 pm

Andrew ...... A couple of questions , if I may ..... where did you get the new discs from ? ......... once the new pads were in place and the piston unit was swung down and locked into place with the locking pin, were you able to rotate the disc by hand with no trouble ? And another question .... which I am sure you did, ..... but just to humour me ;) ..... were the pistons rotated so that they could go in no further ?
And .... I don't know if you have the manual, but below there is a pic ... 94418 ... from the manual referring to the final position of the piston with regard to the "vent - to - atmosphere - hole" being opposite the bleed screw before inserting the pads.

610 rear brake.JPG


I am sure you have attended to all of the above, but for the benefit of me and others trying to help, your assurance would be useful. :up

John
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Re: A610 Binding/Dragging/Overheating rear caliper - again!

Postby paulrob100 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:56 pm

That's all very good advice.

I have had this issue with my GTA. I'm not sure if the calipers are exactly the same. I rebuilt mine with new seals, hoses, sliders etc. they still stuck on. The wheel centres were almost too hot to touch after a run.

I note that you have had the calipers rebuilt. Do you know if they fitted new pistons. I eventually decided to do this. the GTA calipers are the same as a Citroen BX front caliper & the pistons are available quite cheaply. Of course the Citroen uses a different type of fluid to the Alpine so its necessary to get the proper seals. I got mine from Bigg Redd. once assembled as per Johns post above, everything seems ok. Definitely worth a try .
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