new year new car gta v6 gt

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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby mettersl » Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:24 am

Frustrating weekend on the carb overhaul.
After finding three reasons why they wouldn't have worked I'm feeling at least a little bit of hope for when they go back in the car, however, there are a couple of remaining tasks to do...
1) if anyone has done this themselves, can someone explain how to replace the needle valve in the twin choke?
The float pivot pin blocks removal and appears to be riveted in place, so the only way I can see is to drill it out and then tap the pillars to take a suitable replacement pivot, maybe a brass bolt. The chances of this going wrong are moderate. Am I missing a trick, or have mine been bodged before (as seems likely judging by some of the other stuff I found)
2) There are a couple of wrong bits in the Simon Autos overhaul kit and I'm missing some small bits, does anyone know a Solex distributor who holds stock?

Thanks
Lee
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby johnb » Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:42 am

mettersl wrote:Frustrating weekend on the carb overhaul.
After finding three reasons why they wouldn't have worked I'm feeling at least a little bit of hope for when they go back in the car, however, there are a couple of remaining tasks to do...
1) if anyone has done this themselves, can someone explain how to replace the needle valve in the twin choke?
The float pivot pin blocks removal and appears to be riveted in place, so the only way I can see is to drill it out and then tap the pillars to take a suitable replacement pivot, maybe a brass bolt. The chances of this going wrong are moderate. Am I missing a trick, or have mine been bodged before (as seems likely judging by some of the other stuff I found)
2) There are a couple of wrong bits in the Simon Autos overhaul kit and I'm missing some small bits, does anyone know a Solex distributor who holds stock?

Thanks
Lee


The pivot pin should just push out to release the float and then allow access to the needle valve. I have an old carb in the garage and I'll take a look today to refresh my memory and possibly take some photos.
From memory the pin is a push fit, possibly only in one of the pillars so best to tap it out away from that pillar. I'll come back to you once I've had a look.
I don't know of any UK sources for parts. I'm sure I would have looked when I was overhauling my carbs but, in the end, bought the refurb kits from Simon Auto.
1970 A110V85 and 1980 A310V6.
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby stephendell » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:41 am

I have your double kit with me in london now. Any other parts take a photo and I can try and match them up. I have several repair kits that have been raided for parts.
Trafic, Twingo GT, Vel Satis Turbo x 2, Clio V6 Proto Ph2, Vel Satis 3.5, Avantime, Spider, Alpine A610, GTA Atmo x 4, GTA Turbo x 3, R21 Turbo GpN, R5 Gordini Turbo Mid Engine, Alpine A110, Yellow Smart
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby johnb » Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:15 pm

Lee,

I'd forgotten how badly corroded were the original carburettors on my car and the need for a good secondhand set that I managed to find.

The photo doesn't help a great deal, due to the corrosion, and the top of the nearside pillar is broken. I still think that the pin is a push fit, at least in one of the pillars. I probably used a short drill bit, of smaller diameter than the pin, with the none-pointed end against the pin and a light hammer to drift it out. You might need to support the pillar to take some side load off it, if the pin is tight.

The pin should come out and not necessitate the modifications you were envisaging.

A photo of yours might be helpful.
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1970 A110V85 and 1980 A310V6.
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby simontaylor » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:50 pm

I am reading that Deox-C is very good for soaking rusted parts in. An overnight soak has freed up some previously rusted-solid parts for folks. Could be worth a try.
1986 : '86 GTA v6 turbo, with Adaptronic ECU
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2008 : Rushmoor & Eelmoor & ACSMC Hillclimb class Champion
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby mettersl » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:18 am

Thanks everyone...that is exactly the part, I have had some tentative pushes with a drill bit but no movement.
The good news is that whilst the single carb had something resembling mud in the jets and float chamber, the twin was clean and corrosion free (and dry) inside as the needle valve was stuck. There were a number of other blocked passages in the manifold and loose bits on the carbs, so I'm not surprised the car didn't run at all.
I'll have another go. The part I'm missing is the little clip that attaches the needle to the float on the downward movement. it fits into a groove in the top of the needle valve. Ebay didn't turn up anything near the design (its the same in the single carb).
I'm also looking for the clips that lock the operating bar onto the carb butterfly operating lever. I can't believe they are Renault specific, but they seem to be alp specific within Renault.
Southern carburettors here we come.
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby simontaylor » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:25 am

I saw this realising you have an atmo and I have a turbo, but there are some comon parts........

"I'm also looking for the clips that lock the operating bar onto the carb butterfly operating lever"
Is this a "wire", where one end is a three quarter round and the other end is straight.
I think I saw them some where recently on a Renault parts site, nearly bought one as a spare. Delve deeper on ebay, my shopping heaven.
1986 : '86 GTA v6 turbo, with Adaptronic ECU
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2008 : Rushmoor & Eelmoor & ACSMC Hillclimb class Champion
2009 : Longcross & Eelmoor
2010 : Crystal Palace & Eelmoor
2016 : Rushmoor & 5th O/A
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby JohnC » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:59 am

johnb wrote: I still think that the pin is a push fit, at least in one of the pillars. I probably used a short drill bit, of smaller diameter than the pin, with the none-pointed end against the pin and a light hammer to drift it out. You might need to support the pillar to take some side load off it, if the pin is tight.

Lee ..... I totally agree with johnb on this one, and would suggest that it is imperative that you find the end of the pin that is the interference fit. As Simon suggests, I would soak both ends with Plus Gas or similar, then using a toothbrush clean the ends of the shaft and pillars, then inspect both ends of the shaft possibly with a magnifying glass, to try and determine which is the interference end. With shafts like this, there are usually lengthway serrations on the last say, 1 mm of the shaft which when tapped home will slightly distort the hole. You might be able to see this.
If you can find this, then clearly, as johnb says, you tap the pin out from the other end, but I would support the pillar over a nut or similar, so the the pin can drop into its hole ..... hopefully. :)
1990 GTA Atmo, 2003 Jaguar X type 2.5SE Auto, 2002 Daihatsu Sirion 1.3SE
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby clee » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:17 pm

Well my remit is being progressed this end :sarcasm
Andy was being all Yorkshire so took the car away from me 'running' but not really sorted as far as the carbs went .Bitsa job on them with best bits taken from 2 rather used donors .It's since sat for a few years so unsuprising it needs a bit of attention .I have 2 and a half odd carb setups here for spares if you feck owt up .

If I'm waiting on suppliers then that's par for the course ;) but lump is all back together,timed and ready to mate with box and go in frame :up
Found a set of ARB retaining clips/cups for rear and also some good bushes so they may well go in before the SA ones tip up ?
Got to make a new brake servo rigid pipe but a little bit of a guess up near the box end as it's not there to copy ?
Anyone got a pic of how far it sticks out above and beyond the rear bulkhead ? I'll make it up if not .

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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby JohnC » Tue Mar 14, 2017 7:49 pm

clee wrote:Got to make a new brake servo rigid pipe but a little bit of a guess up near the box end as it's not there to copy ?
Anyone got a pic of how far it sticks out above and beyond the rear bulkhead ? I'll make it up if not .

Lee ..... is this what you are after ? ..... take no notice of the "T" piece ....... that's for the cruise control. :)
I am assuming that the rigid pipe is the same for the Turbo as the Atmo.

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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby clee » Tue Mar 14, 2017 8:07 pm

Sort of John, thanks .
Ill take a pic in the morning of what I have left and where the missing bit should run .It's just lost in the mists of time and my memory just exactly how it all ends .....

No Turbo and Atmo totally different path as it has to avoid the turbo .Atmo just pops it's head out at the back of the inlet mani but just how far I can't judge with it all out and once it's all in I'm a little bit stuck .
I'll take pics of both to illustrate .
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby mettersl » Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:58 pm

Thanks Johns B and C,
Magnifier to work out which end was the intererence fit and some gentle tapping with a drift and the pin came out...covered in crud, and sticking in the sleeve so maybe I now know why the needle valve wasn't opening.
I have also found a source for the missing rod retainers, so just the needle valve clip to find and they can go back together.
Then it's lights....trim and other bits. I'll be busy for a few more days on this I think.
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby JohnC » Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:56 am

Well done Lee. :up ........ But now you have it apart, could you help me with a couple of queries for future reference please.
Firstly, I noticed from the parts list that the twin barrel carbs needle valve has a very short thread. See pic below.
If I can now ask a silly question ..... before moving your attention to removing the pin ..... did you actually try to see if the needle valve would come out past the pin or was that an assumption ? I only ask as you did not say if you tried or not .... sorry to ask, but seeing such a short thread and the trouble you have to go to drift out the pin, it seems a awful lot of trouble just to change or clear the needle valve at the side of the road if one had to.
At this point I assume you did check, so once again I apologise ,,,,,, but please humour me. :crazy

Image

Having confirmed that the needle valve will not get passed the pin ...... I had another fall back idea which you might be able to answer now that it is apart.
Assuming the pin is in place as is the loose needle valve. If you wound it up to where it touches the pin ..... would it be possible to file off a bit of the 6 points of the "nut" so it would clear the pin ?
As you will see from the pic there are two "nuts", so by rounding off the points of the first "nut", it will not hinder the removal of the needle valve as the lower "nut" can be used.
This was my fall back idea if your pin decided it was not going to move without damaging the pillars, but it would be interesting to know if by taking a bit off the 6 points, the needle valve could be removed without disturbing the pin.
If this were possible, I would be inclined to modify that "nut" before replacing the needle valve for future easy access for maintenance.
I hope you don't mind these silly questions but it would be nice to know.
Thanks

John
1990 GTA Atmo, 2003 Jaguar X type 2.5SE Auto, 2002 Daihatsu Sirion 1.3SE
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby mettersl » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:06 pm

Hi John,
Happy to answer as far as I can.
I tried to undo the needle valve without removing the pin and it would not unscrew far enough to release from the thread before locking under the pin.
I'm not sure if filing the top off hexagon would work, I'd be worried about cleanliness on the road side but it might.
As I have a new needle valve assembly to go in, I will take some pictures as it goes in and show you. I don't think the drawing fully reflects mine.
The one thing that is still missing from my carb, but shown in the manual and parts book, is a clip that holds the inner needle valve down to the float lever. I'm hunting for one but eBay and on line has drawn a blank, one carb dealer has offered to send me one for free, if I send an stamped addressed envelope, so it looks like human kindness could play out well on this.
The valve was stuck, so I'm very keen to use the new one.
Cheers
Lee
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Re: new year new car gta v6 gt

Postby JohnC » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:03 pm

Hi Lee
Thanks for your reply, and for your understanding of my questions.
Yes ... I would be interested in a picture/s of the problem just to see if one could preempt the problem by modifying the needle valve before installation.
I was not thinking of filing the corners off the hexagon on the road side, but it was my fall back possible method if your pin refused to move.
With regard to the spring .... I don't know if anybody knows exactly its purpose, but my only considered opinion is that it is there to hold up the float to just under the needle valve ... not touching it ... to ease installation of the carb top back on to the carbs main body.
The thinking might be is if the float was to just be dangling straight down, there might be a possibility that it could get jammed either against the chamber side or against the bottom of the chamber whilst screwing the top down as you cannot see what is happening to it.
If this is the case, and if the spring goes missing, if one half filled the chamber with petrol then the float would start to float and not get jammed........ Its just an opinion, unless someone knows any different ???
Anyway .... Thanks for your help, and I look forward to your pictures in due course. :up
Cheers
John
1990 GTA Atmo, 2003 Jaguar X type 2.5SE Auto, 2002 Daihatsu Sirion 1.3SE
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