Reviving my GTA

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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:44 pm

Thanks John I did have some issues with that previously as the o ring on it is not in good shape but I haven't checked it after the recent work so maybe it's worked loose or been knocked.

Neil
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:00 pm

neil-gta wrote:....... finally the service light comes on

The Service light comes on with any of the following :-
1. Minimum fuel level checking circuit.
2. Opening elements closure checking circuits ... bonnet ... doors .
3. Windscreen washer fluid level checking circuit.
4. Handbrake release and brake pad wear checking circuit.

For the intermittent charging light ... check the two pin connector on the alternator itself .... the feed to the ign light goed through that connector.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:07 pm

Thanks John, it looks like the service light may simply have been down to low washer fluid level! A bit embarrasing if correct but as it's not starting just now it's a bit hard to confirm if it's fixed.

I've bought an overhaul kit for the carbs but I've read a few stories on here which make them sound like a bit of a nightmare so I'm a little aprehensive to say the least. I'd like to strip, clean and rebuild them but will probably pass the setting up on to someone with a lot more knowledge once I've finished.

I've not tackled a job like this before so any tips for removal and disassembly would be much appreciated.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:53 pm

neil-gta wrote: ......I've not tackled a job like this before so any tips for removal and disassembly would be much appreciated.

Neil, I would not attempt to dismantle the carbs and fit new parts before finding out why the engine is not starting. There is most probably only one fault on the engine at the moment causing non starting ..... however if you start playing around with the carbs before finding out why it won't start ...... if it still does not start ....... you will never know if you might have fitted a new part incorrectly or the fault is elsewhere. I would suggest that you check that the fuel pump runs when you crank the engine by removing the fuel pipe where it enters the single carb, place its end into a plastic bottle, and get someone to crank the engine....... Fuel should start to flow into the bottle.
Then check that the ignition is producing a spark.
If there is fuel and a spark .... the engine should start even if it starts only on its main jets with the throttle pedal pushed to the floor...... make sure you have a good battery as well.
Have you checked the fuel cut off solenoid. From memory ..... as it is not mentioned in the manual ..... the solenoid is energized just by switching on the ign, so with the ign on, detach / reattach the wire from the solenoid and you should hear it click. But I will check in the morning if it is just operated by ign voltage only.
Let us know how you get on.

John
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:42 pm

I think the non starting is just down to it sitting untouched for a few weeks as it was starting fine before that, just not running well. I reckon a new battery will probably be required as I know it was getting fuel and a spark a few weeks ago although I'll double check before taking any action on the carbs.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:40 am

JohnC wrote:Have you checked the fuel cut off solenoid. From memory ..... as it is not mentioned in the manual ..... the solenoid is energized just by switching on the ign, so with the ign on, detach / reattach the wire from the solenoid and you should hear it click. But I will check in the morning if it is just operated by ign voltage only.

Have just checked and yes .... it is energized by switching on the ign. :up
But just reading your last post ...... just sitting around for a few weeks should not affect starting ability .... unless .... the battery was left connected. If so, there is a good possibility the battery is low ...... these Alps seem to be able to discharge batteries to a level where starting becomes difficult ..... even on a new battery..
If a battery is low (or old) and is left connected for longish periods of time, its ability to supply enough current to crank AND supply the current to produce a hefty spark required on a cold engine is severely compromised.
If you are serious about getting your Alp back on the road ........ might I suggest investing in a new battery. Also ..... having checked the fuel pump works .... check the fuel cutoff solenoid is working ..... (have you replaced the "O" ring you had trouble with .... replace if necessary). Then turn your attention to the ign system ..... Inspect the inside of the distributor cap for dampness or condensation .... check for "tracking" and clean .... replace if necessary. Remove and inspect the Rotor Arm for "tracking" and clean. Whilst the rotor is off, withdraw the oil dipstick and place the end onto the felt pad in the distributor shaft and let the oil soak the pad ...... it won't help starting, but whilst you are there it makes sense to do it as that lubricates the mechanical advance mechanism. :up
Now treat yourself to a new set of plugs .... if you have not done so very recently .... NGK BP6EFS.
Before fitting the last plug ..... leave it connected but laid on top of a clean metal part of the engine to check to see it sparks when the engine is cranked. If spark is there fit plug ...... now try to start the engine.
All of this is not just to start the engine, but to help eliminate other issues that might be giving you your rough running ..... once you have the engine running.

PS. Whilst checking the Fuel cutoff Solenoid .... unscrew it, then remove the idle jet the solenoid was screwed into and make sure the jet is not blocked . ;)

Let us know how you get on.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby johnb » Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:00 pm

Following on from johnc's comment about a constantly connected battery it might be worth fitting a battery isolator switch to disconnect the battery from earth in between usage. I have them on both my Alps and generally don't have a problem with battery power for starting. You just have to get into the habit of 'turning the battery off' after use.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:01 pm

johnb wrote: it might be worth fitting a battery isolator switch to disconnect the battery from earth in between usage.

Hey John ..... good to hear from you, and a point well made. ....... but I was under the impression that all GTA's had an over center clamp connector onto the negative terminal of the battery as standard, as mine came with one as OE ........ but I may be wrong on that.
But having that available is a Blessing as no spanners etc are required to disconnect.
I have never seen one, but I understand the 610 has an isolator switch .... somewhere, .... possibly because of the inaccessibility of the battery. ???
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby johnb » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:41 pm

I'm sure you're right John as I'm not familiar with the GTA battery installation.
My A110 has a key operated battery isolator switch under the dashboard which is a good security feature. The A310 didn't have anything so I fitted a switch to the battery to, at least, stop the drain from the clock and as a safety feature, just in case with a fibreglass car.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:49 pm

Thanks for all the pointers John, it was a new battery when I started looking at the car again last year and it's been disconnected most of that time. Unfortunately I forgot to disconnect it for the few weeks it's been back at home which obviously drained it a bit. It took a charge ok though and managed to start the car today......and I've now disconnected it again just to be on the safe side.

I checked the distributor and all looked fine and the fuel cut off looks ok too as I had replaced the O ring. The plugs though which were replaced not too long ago were all black so it looks like the bad running is probably being caused by too much fuel. Not sure if this is down to the carb setup or the choke mechanism which I had to free off previously so I'll need to investigate further.

Will keep you posted.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:26 pm

neil-gta wrote: The plugs though which were replaced not too long ago were all black so it looks like the bad running is probably being caused by too much fuel. Not sure if this is down to the carb setup or the choke mechanism which I had to free off previously

Neil, ...... a quick check of the choke mechanism is quite easy.
Remove the air filter cover,and with the engine cold, the choke butterfly at the top of the single carb, should be closed. (close to horizontal). Having got the engine running and up to temperature, the choke butterfly should now be open (vertical}.
BTW, have you got the manual for the carbs ?

John
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:56 pm

The butterfly was slightly open when i eventually got it started but unfortunately it won't idle long enough to heat up to running temp so i couldn't check it further. I've downloaded the GTA manual but i don't have specific ones for the carbs, are they available?
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:06 am

neil-gta wrote: I've downloaded the GTA manual but i don't have specific ones for the carbs, are they available?

As long as in your downloaded GTA manual you have pages B29 through to B41, that's all the info you will need. There is very little that you can do to these carbs apart from mixture setting and idle setting ( page B40 ). These carbs are fixed jet type and therefore have been jetted for optimum by the manufactures. The only other adjustments are mechanical linkage ones and unless disturbed should be OK if the car ran well before breaking down.
Another thing you might like to check is that all the small vacuum pipes are attached and not split in any way.
.... unfortunately it won't idle long enough to heat up to running temp so i couldn't check it further.

Once you have started the engine, can you not just keep the revs high enough to get it to operating temperature in order to see if the choke moves into its off mode (butterfly vertical) ?
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Mon May 04, 2015 7:57 pm

Ok, so I've managed to have a good look at it at last and it looks like I've had a couple of loose vacuum hoses. Sorted these and it seemed to idle a bit better but was still running pretty crap.

I Started it from cold and got it up to temp holding the throttle at around 2000rpm for a bit. the butterfly on the single carb opened slightly at first but didn't seem to open right up when it got to temp. It's not stuck as I can move it with my finger and it opened right up with the throttle eventually.....am I just not waiting long enough maybe? (need to learn a bit more patience probably). Also, when it was up to temp I thought the butterflies on the double carb would open with the throttle but I couldn't see that they did or that any fuel was coming out of the jets.....if that's what the two thin tubes at the top of the inlets are?

Anyway, I took it for a run of about 40 miles or so and pushed it quite hard on motorway which seems to have helped as it was running much smoother by the end of it. The issue after that was that it was idling at 2-3000rpm and where a blip of the throttle would let it subside previously that didn't seem to work now. I tried adjusting the idle screw on the single carb but this didn't affect it either way??

I'll be driving it to work in the morning which will be about 30 miles so we'll see if it's back to stuttering or if the drive today has maybe cleared it's lungs a bit. With the high idle, could the levers in the choke mechanism have anything to do with this if they were a bit stiff?

Cheers
Neil
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Mon May 04, 2015 10:13 pm

neil-gta wrote:I Started it from cold and got it up to temp holding the throttle at around 2000rpm for a bit. the butterfly on the single carb opened slightly at first but didn't seem to open right up when it got to temp. It's not stuck as I can move it with my finger and it opened right up with the throttle eventually.....am I just not waiting long enough maybe?

If the temperature gauge is reading normal or the rad fan starts to run and the choke butterfly is not vertical, then you still have a sticking choke mechanism or the wax capsule that operates the choke mechanism is not getting hot enough possibly due to blocked or partially blocked small coolant pipes feeding the wax capsule which is situated at the top of the single carb closest to the bulkhead. When the engine has warmed up feel to see if it is hot.
You say that the butterfly is not stuck which is fine but the butterfly is not physically locked to its operating lever so if the lever sticks then you can move the butterfly to fully open but all that has happened is that the butterfly has been moved away from the operating lever which has stayed where it is stuck .... if you know what I mean .... it is a little bit difficult to explain as text ... it would be much easier to explain with the use of my hands. ;)

Also, when it was up to temp I thought the butterflies on the double carb would open with the throttle but I couldn't see that they did or that any fuel was coming out of the jets.....if that's what the two thin tubes at the top of the inlets are?

What ever you try, you will never see the twin butterflies operate as the vacuum required can only be produced on loaded acceleration of the car. The two thin tubes you ask about are accelerator pump swan necks which squirt extra fuel into the carbs when you stab the accelerator for quick acceleration. In order to see these jets squirt, the throttle has to be stabbed not just opened. Also the twin carb will not operate if the coolant in the item mentioned above (choke operating capsule} does not reach 58 degrees. This is to prevent flat spotting when the engine is cold.

The issue after that was that it was idling at 2-3000rpm and where a blip of the throttle would let it subside previously that didn't seem to work now. I tried adjusting the idle screw on the single carb but this didn't affect it either way??

This could still be due to the choke not opening properly which will hold the revs up until the choke is off.

With the high idle, could the levers in the choke mechanism have anything to do with this if they were a bit stiff?

Yes, I think you need to work the levers with your fingers in the choke mechanism whilst applying a light oil ... those on a shaft can be slid back and forth very slightly also. It must be got to a stage that when the operating wax capsule is hot the choke butterfly moves to vertical.

John
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