Reviving my GTA

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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby Custard » Tue May 05, 2015 6:12 am

I went through all this with my one, the carb set up is apauling and also old. If you are going to keep the car if you have the money put the holly convertion on. It transforms the car it's simple and reliabale, you will spend the same money keeping the old setup going along with all the breakdowns.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:58 pm

Hi folks, I'm afraid circumstances put the Alpine on the shelf again for a few months which was pretty gutting as I'm desparate to get it back running well.

Unfortunately I don't have the money for a holly conversion as tempting as it sounds but to be fair I hadn't spent a penny on the carb setup before it broke down originally. Not using the car has been the major problem I think.

I've now got the car right outside the (current) house so it can be worked on whenever I have a chance. I checked the choke mechanism and the wax element today and it looks like the left hand side of the element (as you look into the engine bay) was a bit blocked with gunk. The small piston wasn't fully extended so I've cleaned it out a bit and then ran hot water through it and it pushed out further. Was too dark to refit so will get back to it next week sometime. Comments on here were a great help yet again so thanks very much.

Will keep you updated on the outcome next week.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:12 pm

So I fitted the wax element back on after cleaning out the gunky end and ran the car up to running temp again but the butterfly still ain't opening. The element worked fine when it was out of the car and I ran hot water through/over it but back in the car it's the same as before.

Can someone just confirm which of the coolant hoses attached to the element is the inlet and which is the outlet? When the cars up to temp the hose on the left is hot but the one on the right remains cold. Is there a valve inside this part that's maybe seized or is it more likely to be a blockage? https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3kP7Xqi8ZvIWjV0VFhMR3dveUk

Thanks
Neil
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby johnb » Mon Oct 12, 2015 6:49 pm

neil-gta wrote:
Can someone just confirm which of the coolant hoses attached to the element is the inlet and which is the outlet? When the cars up to temp the hose on the left is hot but the one on the right remains cold. Is there a valve inside this part that's maybe seized or is it more likely to be a blockage? https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3kP7Xqi8ZvIWjV0VFhMR3dveUk

Thanks
Neil


I can't remember on my A310 which is in or out but they both should be hot indicating a flow through the element housing. Looks as if one of those small bore hoses is blocked. On the A310 there aren't any valves or restrictions in any of those hoses.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:19 pm

Sorry John I meant to say was there a valve inside the wax element part rather than the hoses? When trying to clean it out with a small screwdriver (carefully) it felt like the right hand side was perhaps 'closed' somehow. It didn't feel like there was an opening to allow flow of water but my knowledge is pretty limited so not sure what it's supposed to look like inside.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby johnb » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:13 pm

neil-gta wrote:Sorry John I meant to say was there a valve inside the wax element part rather than the hoses? When trying to clean it out with a small screwdriver (carefully) it felt like the right hand side was perhaps 'closed' somehow. It didn't feel like there was an opening to allow flow of water but my knowledge is pretty limited so not sure what it's supposed to look like inside.


Did you remove the wax element from its housing completely when you tested it with hot water? If not, I'd recommend that you do, so that the housing can be cleaned out completely. If the element was still in the housing when you tried to clean it your screwdriver could just be hitting the back of the element.
Besides the two hoses connected to the housing there might be a blockage lower down. On the A310 the two hoses connect to small bore steel pipes which might also be blocked.
Somewhere on the forum I put something about the device on the A310. I'll see if I can find it.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:23 pm

neil-gta wrote: When trying to clean it out with a small screwdriver (carefully) it felt like the right hand side was perhaps 'closed' somehow. It didn't feel like there was an opening to allow flow of water but my knowledge is pretty limited so not sure what it's supposed to look like inside.

Hi Neil,

If you look at the pic below of mine when it was off the car, you will notice that apart from the hose connection nozzles there, are two other positions which accept temperature activated capsules ..... the one that pokes into the auto choke mechanism, and the other that has two small vacuum hoses attached.
Coolant should be able to flow past the capsules from left to right in your picture.
With the capsules extending into the fitting, there is clearly a bit of restriction, but there should be plenty of room for the coolant to flow past.
I would suggest that you remove the fitting and clean thoroughly but I also suggest not removing the capsules if possible. Also I would remove the two hoses and check for gunk in them and make sure they are clean and clear.
However, unless you want the "V" area between the heads filled with coolant, you will have to drain a fair amount down. I would do it by letting the coolant drain via the bleed pipe on the rad until it stops flowing .... that should be enough but I would put an old towel or similar under the lower parts of the hoses to catch any small amount of coolant in the pipes. If coolant spills into the "V", it is very difficult to get rid of as you need it dry in order to check for leaks once the job has been done.

John

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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby johnb » Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:54 pm

johnb wrote:Somewhere on the forum I put something about the device on the A310. I'll see if I can find it.


This was the other thread Neil. It shows the internals of the housing if you've not already looked inside.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7341&hilit=A310+carburetor

I'm sure that johnc will have a good reason for suggesting not to remove the capsule from the housing but on mine removing it didn't create any problems, and it does allow you to check the O ring behind its flange.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:28 pm

Thanks Johns, although I'm now very ashamed of my manky engine!!

The pic of your choke mechanism has got me thinking though. I removed mine last year as one of the pivots was siezed after the car sat for so long. I used a photo to make sure it went back together again but I think I'll double check that to make sure the levers are all in the right position.

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One thing though....I can't recall how the spindle that the butterfly sits on is removed, does this just tap out? Will also be taking the hoses off tomorrow including the small metal section to give them a proper clean out.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby johnb » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:10 am

neil-gta wrote:Thanks Johns, although I'm now very ashamed of my manky engine!!

The pic of your choke mechanism has got me thinking though. I removed mine last year as one of the pivots was siezed after the car sat for so long. I used a photo to make sure it went back together again but I think I'll double check that to make sure the levers are all in the right position.

Image

One thing though....I can't recall how the spindle that the butterfly sits on is removed, does this just tap out? Will also be taking the hoses off tomorrow including the small metal section to give them a proper clean out.


The photo of the choke mechanism on your car differs in detail from the mechanism on my car. It looks more like design changes rather than differences in the way they are assembled.

I have the original carburetor from my car in the garage so I’ll have a look later at how the butterfly spindle is removed. I might be wrong but I would think it does tap out after the butterfly has been removed from the spindle.

If you haven’t seen this article it may be of interest. It’s a Google translation of a French article. The GTA manual also has a section on the carburetors if you have access to it. The web article was probably based on the A310 manual section on the carburetors as the drawings are the same.

http://translate.google.co.uk/translate ... md%3Dimvns
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:57 am

neil-gta wrote:The pic of your choke mechanism has got me thinking though. I removed mine last year .......

According to your pic of the choke mechanism .... which appears to be upside down, but if you click it, you get a corrected orientation and larger pic ..... there appears to be a part missing or not connected. If you look at my pic below from the manual, there should be a quite a long lever dropping out of the RHS of the mechanism which connects to the throttle butterfly shaft .... well it does on mine. It appears to be missing or not connected in your pic. This lever has an effect on the lever above placing it in the wrong position in your pic. It may be that when you took the pic, you had not connected it by that time, so if you could clarify that please.
Anyway my pic might help you to see if everything is in the right place when cold.

Image

Also could you confirm that, again whilst cold, you can press on the forward sector of the choke flap so you can move it to the vertical position without it sticking. You will be pressing against a small spring, but effectively very little resistance but enough to be able to return the butterfly to its rest position ..... see pic below.

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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby johnb » Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:37 pm

johnb wrote:
I have the original carburetor from my car in the garage so I’ll have a look later at how the butterfly spindle is removed. I might be wrong but I would think it does tap out after the butterfly has been removed from the spindle.



I’ve looked at the old carburetor and the choke butterfly spindle comes out quite easily, that’s if you really need to remove it. Before you do anything, if you check to see if the butterfly opens as johnc has shown in his photo then this would indicate that the throttle spindle is free to move. If so, it shouldn’t need removal.

If you do still want to remove it then, firstly, the two screws that hold the butterfly in the spindle have to be removed. If you’re doing it with the carburetor still on the car you obviously need to remove any risk of the screws falling into the carburetor once they’re removed. I’d suggest that you duct tape the top and bottom parts of the butterfly plate to the barrel to stop it opening and make sure any gaps are sealed.

Once the screws are out the butterfly plate slides out of the spindle.

The mechanism housing is attached to the carburetor body with three screws that next need removing. Once these are out the housing will pull back with the spindle in place. It doesn’t need tapping. The photos below show the stages.
I’ve also attached a photo of the mechanism in this old A310 carburetor. Comparing it with the GTA mechanism there are quite a few design differences. Therefore I’d compare yours with the drawing johnc posted rather than with the A310 mechanism. In the photo you can see the link to the lower throttle butterfly that johnc referenced.

Whilst that lower linkage on your car is currently disconnected, if it still is, you can also check that the lower, throttle butterfly spindle is free to move through its full range. If you are able to hold the choke butterfly open, as johnc’s photo, then you can look down the barrel to see the throttle butterfly moving, closed to fully open when you operate the linkage by hand. The throttle spindle on my old A310 carburetor was, and still is, totally seized that’s why I replaced it. No amount of penetrating oil would free it.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby neil-gta » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:54 pm

I had disconnected the longer lever before the photo was taken so that part is ok. I checked with it reconnected and the lower butterfly throttle is opening fine too...as is the upper one when moving it by hand.

I decided to open up the parts of the capsule as I couldn't even blow air through it so it was obviously blocked. Turned out that was the case so I've cleaned it out and put it back together. Unfortunately either the battery was now a bit low or the starter motor has maybe begun to seize up (had bother with that before) so I couldn't run it to check. Battery charge overnight and I'll have another go tomorrow.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby johnb » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:26 pm

Keep at it Neil, you'll get there in the end.
Besides cleaning the wax element housing I'm sure you'll check that the hoses both sides are clear as well.
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Re: Reviving my GTA

Postby JohnC » Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:30 pm

neil-gta wrote: ...... I decided to open up the parts of the capsule as I couldn't even blow air through it so it was obviously blocked. Turned out that was the case so I've cleaned it out and put it back together.

As it appears that the capsules' housing was blocked, it might be worth checking, at some time, that the two hoses .... the in and the out ones .... are clear, as if there is gunk in them, the gunk might be pushed up into the capsules' housing and cause a further blockage, as that might have been how the housing got blocked in the first place. It may not be the case but worth bearing in mind in case you have further problems with the choke.
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