E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

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E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby turbell » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:33 am

Hello, I've hung around gathering info from here and other sources ( including much Clee bothering ) and thought it was time to give something back and join up fully, so I can post my Alpine story, hopefully in full, warts 'an all which may help/inspire/interest other owners or potential owners. I am a member of another Renault club, but the RAOC is in my view priceless as a point of information and mutual assistance, in what can be a challenging car to deal with.
I am a long time Biker as well as Renault nut and back in '99 I concluded as a new father it was time to hang up my helmet,( very painful ! ) and to quench my thirst for speed buy a car I had always come close to buying, a GTA Turbo, in the end I bought E200JVV from Doncaster, and kept the GSXR anyway, may as well hang for a sheep as a lamb!
If I've done this right here's a picture of the car now,( I haven't any pics of then as digi wasn't my bag then)
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So anyhow, I ran the car as a toy for a year or two doing jobs here and there but more things seemed to go wrong than I could keep up with and it was becoming clear the underside was wanting more than a brush of waxoil, so I bought another car which ended up a full on resto, but now looks like this......
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Via a lot of this
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You get the idea! Don't worry there's some scary GTA pics coming up.
The long and short of it was I kept MOT'ing the GTA but it was getting a struggle as persistent brake seizure, which was not just sticky calipers ( telltale squirt of fluid when opening the nipples at rest ) meant the car sat about dragged here and there including a house move to somewhere with less drive space, Oh I nearly forgot before I did the above 4Cv I did my 11 Turbo, which had been sat for 5 years or so..........Anyhow the dragging brakes were becoming a pain to move the car so out with the tank and lets have a look, buggered servo, a plea on RCCC forum and John from Renaultspeed came up with a brand spanker he didn't know what it was for, but matched my measurements and description........Boom, result, but as the old servo had been pushing the master out permanently the bore had rusted and on fitting the new servo the master began to weep and so started a web search and I found the RAOC forum and in turn found a specialist not 20 miles away ....RATS who supplied a new master and I've bothered him ever since!
Of course in true Alpine style that part of the story is never as simple as it should have been, because Tinny the Tin worm had been doing his best to return my Alps front crossmember to the mother earth and I had a big decision to make sell and live happily ever after, or enter two plus years of pain, torment and welding burns, well here I am!
The car had two large bulges on the rear of the front crossmember beneath the rack and the only way I could think to get to it was airsaw the front off and see inside the section,.......oh dear..
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This is bringing back bad memories think I'll have a lie down.
If you look at the drawings in the parts book and manuals it becomes clearer how the front end is constructed and from there I was able to formulate a plan to repair the rot.
Behind the fuel tank there is a flat section partially covered by a GRP panel which is part of the boot inner and bonded on top of the crossmember, this was cut just to reveal the complete steel panel where servo bolts on, I then gave some thought to how the car would react to having large sections cut in this area and concluded it would be best to remove the front struts to stop them from prying the front end open, as the bit inbetween that would be weakened during the work, I also stripped as much weight off the front of the car ( headlights, bonnet, bumper, rad etc ) as it would be on stands/tyres under the triangles ( under the pedals ) and I didn't want any drooping ( quiet at the back no giggling! ) a picture paints a thousand words so look at this........
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I left a little of the panel shown above ( N/Side) towards the right between the upper and lower wishbones so it would highlight any movement by buckling, it didn't ( buckle ) so with the flat front cut out I could unbolt the lower rack mount but leave the rack in situ, and chop out the rotten inner as shown in the first pic.Then cut the rear out which is the bit you can see if you look up between the bulkhead and the crossmember is where the rack is visible and mounts and where the fuel pump lives.
Basically the rear extends off the central spine up, level and back down to the servo panel with a section at the top bracing and two upturned ' wings welded to the spine and woefully spot welded onto the outer with the rack bolting through, the rot starts inbetween the double skin and is only visible when you look up or through the gap side-on.
After butt welding a section to repair the outer rear, I made a two piece section to replace the inner , a wing shape with the hole for the rack and what was left of the top right angled section and welded the living shite out of it, big plug welds through and seam welded everywhere, plenty of Bilt Hamber rust killer then seam welded the outer back on. Same servo side and paint plus a litre of Dynex50 wax.
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Servo and master back in new brake pipes and tank back in.........oh that looks crappy below the rad.....need any explanation?
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Last edited by turbell on Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby clee » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:09 pm

Always a pleasure never a bother .Good to see you on here mate :wave
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby turbell » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:02 pm

Thanks for the welcome Lee, I've gone for the deluxe Membership so look forward to getting my massive welcome pack, pen, sticker, T shirt, embroided fleece, umbrella, cap, RAOC pants......... :Cheer
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby The Saint » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:27 pm

Image

*Best not hold your breath on that one!!**

Drop Mr Dell an IM... I am sure he will sort you some goodies




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If you need any web based help feel free to call me.
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby turbell » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:37 pm

No worries Vince, I'm just here to put something into the knowledge base after having a lot of info free gratis and good contacts thanks to this forums existence, are you ready for more rot 'cos while ever it's cold outside I'll keep typing!.........
After the radiator outriggers repair I moved onto the next nightmare........dun dun derrrrrr........
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chop out GRP and see what there ........oh yes branflakes...........
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Cut it out marking hinge positions and replicate in box section, some of you may remember Dangledogs post on the very same subject, well Lee put him in touch with me and I sent him this info...........still waiting for them beers Dangly....
The problem with door post replacement is what to do with the roll hoop with runs up the front pillar and is welded to the top of the box section, as I had cut through it at the top of the old box section I had to figure out a way to re-attach to what was left in the pillar,........much thought later and scrabbling through the useful scrap box I found a box spanner that had a small end that nearly fitted into the remains of the hoop which then was the same size on its shaft, a little tickle on the grinder and cut to length this was welded into the new door post then the new section was bolted and bonded in place and the sleeved section carefully welded up.
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Id had a bit of a fight getting the grp off and to be honest had butchered it a bit so ended up shaping a piece of timber and laying up the bits with some new matting and resin on the timber mould ( covered in PVC plastic so I could remove it later) all part of the learning curve as I did it in more than one cut as I really didn't know how far I would have to go to get the old post out.
Bonded back in and matted in...........
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And then filled skimmed with finishing glaze and etched, stone chipped, high build primed, colour matched aerosol basecoat to keep it looking good till full paint, and a coat of two pack lacquerImage
More later!
Last edited by turbell on Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby clee » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:38 pm

bish bash bosh couple of hours tops :Butt
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby turbell » Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:23 pm

Probably not that long..........twenty minutes a side, just pop it the time machine for the resin to cure............. Doctor Who Styli' innit...... :wave
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby turbell » Sun Dec 07, 2014 9:30 am

I was trying to do the work in order of scare factor, i.e do the nastiest bits first, then if circumstances changed or I got fed up with the car, it was more saleable, it was never on my mind to get shut, just financially the welding cost me peanuts, I probably hadn't broken past fifty quid so far, but later on I would have to spend a lot more.
If I could complete the welding at least the car wouldn't be a total loss and could be moved on more easily and I hadn't spent a heap on it.
So next up was the O/S lower sill/outrigger..........chop chop........
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Cut out the rot, make new, weld inImage
Bond everything back on, I laid some matting and resin up on a piece of timber and made strips about three inches wide, then trimmed them into nice straight pieces and bonded them onto car, held with self tappers and some 8mm pipe to pull them tight onto the car until the two pack adhesive had cured,
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After 24 hrs I then could bond and self tap the piece that I had cut out back on and then remove the tappers when cured,
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Then it was grind the joints and lay it up with matting, fill, dolphin glaze ( I was told to do this step so the solvents used in the painting didn't leach into the new ungelcoated GRP repairs (a barrier if you wish) by my national accident repair training manager contact, whether its necessary I am not fussed but it seemed logical)primed, stonchip etc etc
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Before I bonded the outer back on I could have a look up into the O/S door post, which strangly was perfect!?
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As was the rest of the sill...........
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Next up N/S outrigger. Sill was all sound and in black paint when I cut the outer off just a little grot where the outrigger butted up, so cut out and replaced this small sill section and the end of the outrigger, do this step once, do it right then no nasties in the future when it's shiny painted, it's no good ignoring things and papering over them 'cos it'll come back in the future and you ruin your nice paintwork, a bit like having a poo when you've just had a bath....ruined!
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Then bond, mat, resin, fill...blah...blah...
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby BIG_MVS » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:34 pm

Brilliant work, thanks for posting. Think we met at RATS in July, Jon Fuller's old car?

Fancy a run out to Knutsford end of January?
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby turbell » Sun Dec 07, 2014 5:08 pm

Hi, yes it was a pleasure to meet you at RATS and you are correct it is ex Jon Fuller, I bought the car from his parents house in Thorne far side of Doncaster, although I never met Jon as he was working away, which allowed me a little leverage with his Dad as he sold it on Johns behalf !
The car is laid up now till spring as I can not justify taxing it to just sit there, so Knutsford is out I'm afraid although I might come in the Slaggy, I'll let you know........January GTA's.... damp.......salt......giving me a headache! :crazy
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby clee » Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:07 pm

I'll co drive if you fancy a trip out ya wuss. Won't have anything Alp but do got a slaguna also with a V6 clio lump ...probably better placed tbh :axe
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby turbell » Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:00 pm

Can't see a reason not to then, it's a date, but I don't kiss on first dates..........but groping's fine....... :Butt
Right back to it.........drop me guts...........
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I made up the beam that is shown in the manual to to this and used two piddly trolley jacks and axle stands, jacking and then put the stands under then the trolleys on two railway sleepers because they didn't have enough lift, I had also taken the rear bumper off as it gained me 100mm or so.
Now a word of caution if you use the beam made to the dimensions in the manual.....it is meant to be used in conjunction with a car lift and you raise the car then drop the guts with the lift,....if you use the beam to jack the car away from the guts obviously it is pivoting on the front wheels and the raised blocks on the beam are pushed at an angle......are you getting what happens, I know because I had a near miss, on my own Saturday afternoon be warned. If you use the Clee method of a wooden fence post it will deform and the car will bite into it, metal will slip It's also worth putting the front wheels on blocks so as you jack up the first foot of movement is going towards level. Anyway the point is it can be done with just a couple of jacks a beam and stands and plenty of big blocks, just take your time and keep clear at all times. I can't remember whether I did the rear turrets first or stripped the guts but I'll stick with the shell and say I did the turrets, Clee has covered this before so heres some pics and I'll leave it at that..........
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Suffice to say both sides cut out cleaned up repaired,etched,zinc rich primer, stonechip and wax.
And of course there was the arch pockets, one was ballaxed and copied the other I got away with replacing one side of it, derust, bilt hamber rust stabiliser bonded back on and sealed and stonechiped
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If you see anything just tack welded it's just that's the picture I found but obviously everthing was fully seam welded......just covering myself ! And that's the shell all done a all remaining metal work was derusted and treated with Bilt Hamber , zinc primed and stone chip then I injected a couple of litres of wax into everywhere.
Then the fun continued when I had to break this heap o'bab up what a battle!
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Breaker bars, heat, gallons of plus gas, blood, grazed knuckes, angle grinders, hacksaws, bits of hacksaw blade, big hammers you name it, and still the bolts struggled out deforming the bottom arms as they came out, finally with it all apart it went to the blasters and I had the subframe and the connecting struts powder coated but rest left bare as at least the lowers would want repairs,
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The lower arms were bad under the anti roll bar fixings and had some pin holes here and there, I also seam welded the edges to add some strength, tacking first and taking my time so not to deform them, although the lower outer bush holes had splayed but I found the jack handle was just the right size and tweaked them back parallel then ran a weld round them to replace some of the thickness and them welded into the arm to make sure,
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These were also weak and have been known to fail, so belt and braces approach.
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New bolts were easily found apart from the lower outer but lee let me have a couple to replace the two I had to cut through. Bare this in mind they are a fine pitch and would say they are dealer only.
All nice and shiny now, all new bushes care of RATS on bottom arms, rest were good, started to spend money now !
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby Alpineandy » Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:57 pm

1) Good job. Thanks for sharing.
2) Clee bothering is a gentlemans persuit!
2) Is the 750 one of Mr Hendersons old cars (I certainly recognise it from somewhere)?
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby turbell » Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:22 pm

Thanks for the positive comments it does make some of it worthwhile ! At least the posting bit.............if people are interested then it's not in vain.
Does Clee bothering come into the same category as sheep worrying? If so can I state for the record I have never worried/been worried or indeed bothered/been bothered by him.... nor wish to.......but I am thinking of some engine upgrades mmmm?
And finally yes you are correct it is ex Big nose, now reunited with a mildly modded Daup Gord engine as featured in Renotes a year or two ago, by far the most fun car I have ever owned.
Ryan.
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Re: E200JVV GTA TURBO Resto

Postby turbell » Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:02 pm

I forgot to mention it's worth looking at where the front triangles join the central spine as mine had just starting to look like wet newspaper at the edges, I did clean them up and treat them but in the end decided to drill out the spot weld and pry the joint open enough to get a folded 40 grit DA disc in and clean up to bright metal them while the car was on stands I jacked the joint shut and plugged the holes with weld, prime etc etc.
The rear calipers were refurbed with Big Redd kits ( I initially didn't bother stripping the fronts but had an imbalance problem later on when I test drove the car prior to the MOT and was amazed what an overall performance difference they made when only slightly sticky) then fleabay sourced a set of Goodridge hoses, why wouldn't you at £60 to your door?
The handbrake cables were butchered to get them off so I had nose a through the parts stock and found some long enough and cut them to suit,I have made my own cables ever since the clutch cable went on the 750, just find a cable long enough, well inner at least, outers can be joined with a suitable sleeve and then a piece of shrinkdown to keep it together and the weather out.
Get the outers routed and held in place most Renault cables have removable end that goes on the outer with spines on that will fit either end, when your'e happy with the outer cut one of the nipples off one end of a long enough inner, you must use a cutting disc in an angle grinder to get a clean cut, hacksaws will just make a ballax of the job, then thread it in from the handbrake end ( adjustment fully in ) and mark the caliper arm end.
Cut to the mark, then you need something to make a nipple I have found a M8 bolt shank ( unthreaded bit ) perfect, in to the pillar drill, 3mmish hole straight down the centre and a deep countersink in one end then thread on the cable with few mm above the end of the nipple, in the vice and then wack up the mig welder to max and fuse the end in whist tightening the vice as hard as your arms can go, Hey Presto free cables, assuming you've got piles of NOS Renault cables a mig welder and a pillar drill!
This next bit is worthwhile also, when I was trying to get a decent handbrake I noticed the handbrake bracket flexed where the two cables came through it, as these corrode it is a good idea to beef them up a little.
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Prior to making the handbrake cables the subframe was temporary refitted so I could move the car outside and put the 750 back in the garage leaving me enough room to rebuild the engine over the winter, doesn't look good..........Image
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