Standalone ECU A610

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Standalone ECU A610

Postby r5gordini » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:21 am

Hi All,

I've been wanting to change the ECU on my A610 ever since I bought it. I have considered Adaptronic, but the ECU is so very expensive...

I bought a Megasquirt from a friend. He'd been using it on a Toyota MR2 engine in his Gilbern T11 (the only one in existence):

http://www.thepetrolstop.com/2013/02/pr ... n-t11.html

I did have the intention of using the Megasquirt on my 21 Quadra... But, I'm really fed up with the distributor on my A610 so I'd like to use the Ford EDIS 6 system...

Am I mad to be considering the Megasquirt? I'm fully versed in electronics and computing, etc... Has anyone else used a Megasquirt on their PRV6? I know the Adaptronic is proven, but... I love the DIY aspect of the MS.

Andrew
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby stephendell » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:33 am

You might want to speak to John at JL engineering as he is currently producing a plug and play solution for the A610. The multi plug even fits the original bracket. It won't be mega squirt prices though. There would however be savings on mapping and rolling road time though as with ms you'd be starting from scratch. When I've looked at ms previously there are loads of different kits of varying quality out there from a complete ecu to a bag of bits and the price varies accordingly.
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby Custard » Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:36 am

I agree there needs to be an Ecu that has been sorted and set up for the A610 that the club recognises as a replacement.
I am now going through mine because of cut out issues which they suffered from, so I am going through the wireing loom which has heat issues, once it is back in the car if the problem is still there then it will be an Ecu change, but it needs to keep as much of the dash functions working.
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby simontaylor » Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:44 pm

you could speak to Chris at EFI-Parts. He is the UK importer for Adaptronic, however he works on other units too. I think the initial advantage of the Adaptronic was that it could cope with the Renault flywheel with 3 triggers, but if you are ok to use an aftermarket trigger wheel, then any ECU should work.
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby Custard » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:03 pm

Also a lot of good engineers like the DTA, I thought I would find out if the ecu issues are down to cooked wireing looms, once all my electrics are all sound and it still cuts out then it will point to ageing problems in the old ecu and to keep these cars reliabale and on the road new kit is required.
It will probably start happening in the Gta's at some point, those old resistors can't go on forever.
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby BIG_MVS » Mon Dec 19, 2016 5:35 pm

Don't think it will be ECU either. My car had a brand new one fitted so someone had been barking up a similar tree.

I also had a good used one from a breaker, tried that no difference. Sent it to JohnC who fully tested it and replaced a few diodes? Still the same when fitted.

I'm convinced it's wiring loom related so hopefully you can find the problem and sort it.
1994 A610 - Montana Red
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby clee » Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:50 pm

I still reckon it's injectors overheating.There must have been an issue there as we have special ducting to them ....
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby Custard » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:20 pm

I think you maybe right as it only normally happens when it's v hot, the petrol vaporises in the injectors a bubble is formed and then no petrol spray, as you say cooling on injectors and the air con cooling the petrol under the car and the exposed fuel filter in the wheel arch. But my engine was cutting out when you tern on the A/C and the new starter motor just managed to tern over the engine when the engine is hot. Most of the wireing is heat damaged and old.
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby clee » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:30 pm

Wiring is older and a lot more crispy on a GTA though and we never get this issue.
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby BIG_MVS » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:52 pm

Bish bosh and the cut out is gone.

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1994 A610 - Montana Red
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/hertzvanhire/ ... pg=&_from=
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby clee » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:07 pm

yeh but no but,I know but......it's a bodge and permanently runs the pump and we'd like to know why it does it more than fix it iyswim .
That's an even better BigM bodge as well ....feckin scotch locks..... aye man yer a canne one !
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby JohnC » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:11 pm

BIG_MVS wrote: Sent it to JohnC who fully tested it and replaced a few diodes? Still the same when fitted.


As Martin has mentioned me in connection with this fault, let me follow up on my examination of the ECU.
I was pleasantly surprised by the build quality of the ECU. Certainly not what I expected knowing the "quality .... not" of the electrics in these Alps ....... it was excellent with no sign of dry joints or solder cracks. I did change four electrolytic capacitors as a matter of course, remembering under normal operating conditions, they have a life of approx 15 years. The originals had a operating temperature of 105 degrees, and I replaced them with identical values, but with operating temperatures of 125 degrees just to be on the safe side.
It did not make any difference at all ..... when reinstalled in Martins 610, it still cut out.
However, I did make a suggestion that, as others had suggested, the ECU was getting overheated, so I did suggest a test in order to possibly prove or disprove my theory.
I still have the PM I sent to Martin asking him if he would like to check my theory out, but to date he has not come back to me on this, and I await his report. I also have discussed this test with others, but to date no one has come back to me.
I still think it is worth the test, so I am sure Martin won't mind my copying my PM to him, below.
Basically the check is to run the ECU in cool air as opposed to the electronics being cooped up in a sealed box with no ventilation.
A couple of things to note.
The reason the 610 engine cuts out when hot (never when cold) is because the fuel pump stops working.
The fuel pump relay is controlled by the ECU when the engine starts to turn by cranking or engine running.
The reason this happens in this way is that the ECU uses the crank sensors pulses to firstly trigger the ignition, and also control the circuit to energize the the fuel pump relay.
Remember, when the fuel pump relay is forced on with the earth link, the engine runs perfectly thus ruling out any other external faults to the ECU.
Also the ECU is in control of the priming of the fuel pump, and temporally energizes the fuel pump relay for a few seconds when the ign is switched on.
Here is my PM to Martin.

Hi Martin,
Thanks for the update on your ECU, it was however, something we rather expected after I had had a good inspection of your ECU, but it does prove that the electrolytic capacitors were not the cause, neither was there any dry/cracked joints.
Now having had a good look at the ECU, my mind is turning to the positioning of the ECU and its proximity to the turbo. It could well be something that others have suggested that it is due to sheer overheating of the ECU for the cutting out. Also remember that it does also happen to the GTA turbo's but perhaps not to such an extent.
Don't worry, I am not going to ask you to do anything .... yet, just a bit of info for me please, As you know I am a bit tenacious when it comes to fault finding.
Now remember I have not seen in the flesh one of these installations, so .... perhaps you could tell me if it would be possible to detach the whole ECU plus relay plate, and, if the wiring would allow, could it be folded down, so to speak, and laid on the gearbox housing, ie:- between the two rear seats. In other words effectively removing it from the turbo's heat source.
My idea is that If that were possible, I also noted that the ECU's removable cover faces the bulkhead, and if folded down on the gearbox cover, that ECU cover would be upper most, and could be removed.
Now if that all were possible, the circuit board & components would not get as hot as they do when the ECU has its cover on with no ventilation.
I think you said that you work in IT, so you know that most circuit boards in computers have fan assisted cooling, and in all fairness, if you think of the 610's ECU boxed with no ventalitaion close to the turbo, in my view, just like others have said, the ECU could well be overheating.
So, at the moment my question is, ... would it be possible to "fold down" the ECU on to the gearbox housing, ie, do you think the wiring would allow such a move.
I am not asking you to do it, but having experience in changing these ECU's, do you think this is possible?
I have most probably gone into more detail than I needed to, but I thought it might help to see which way my mind was thinking.
So, I am afraid it is back to you, but I will be at Goodwood in August so I will be able to see an installation in a 610 for myself, in the mean time, your view on this would be appreciated,


Anyone interested in doing this test ? Any questions, please don't hesitate to to contact me.

John
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby BIG_MVS » Mon Dec 19, 2016 10:51 pm

Sorry John thought I replied to that one back in the day.

I can confirm the ECU was sat on the back seat and not bolted to the bulk head and it still cut out.

I spoke to another chap who put it in a cool box (I kid you not) while driving and it still cut out...
1994 A610 - Montana Red
Some GTA/A610 Parts For Sale:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/hertzvanhire/ ... pg=&_from=
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby stephendell » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:28 am

Also I know someone that fitted computer fans to cool it and it still cut out.
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Re: Standalone ECU A610

Postby clee » Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:51 am

Fuel and inj relays are linked on both GTA and a610,.We do not get the issue on GTA and the ecu is in the same position .I do see quite a few melted pins/relays on GTA fuel pump.
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