Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

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Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby xranalli » Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:17 am

Dear Friends
I found a PRV V6 3.0L 12 valves, it comes from Renault Baccarà.
Do you know if it is possible to mount it on A310 without huge modifications?
If someone did it please explain me how
many many thanks
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby mettersl » Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:19 am

There are others on here who can help in more detail, but if by a Baccara, you mean a 25 Baccara, then you will need to swap many parts over between the two engines to convert it from one installation type to another, but it should be relatively straight forward. Both should bolt directly to your gearbox, although the clutch may need some thought. You may need a bigger radiator too,
Where it will be more fun is fuel and exhaust systems.
The 3.0 engines are even fires (unless it's a 2.9 in which case it could be odd fire like the 310). They are all fuel injected.
If it's fuel injected there will be more mods needed to create the high pressure fuel system and decisions about how to sort the electronics needed to run the engine. This could get complex. You may be able to run carbs, depending on your local legal restrictions but you then have problems with the inlet manifold as odd and even fire have different inlet manifold needs to get the best from them.
The exhaust will need work too as the oddfire and even fire have slightly different needs here too to get the best from them.
Overall, pretty strightforward.
Last edited by mettersl on Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby clee » Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:32 am

You will need the bottom plate from an A310 lump as the engine mounts are totally different but the plate will swap straight over to the block with no modifications .
Have you got the ECU and loom from the 3l ? High pressure fueling and ECU and it should run.
Did this on Tony Smiths atmo to Espace EFI engine ,5 wires chopped in from Atmo to EFI was all it needed to run .The rest as Lee says will come .....
Once Martin F has finished the tweaking on his new engine a similar 3l + job is in the pipeline for his A310 .Bottom plate is a must though for ease of install/box/linkage ..
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby xranalli » Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:39 pm

What is a bottom plate?
Can 3L engine to be coupled directly on the gearbox? (I suppose yes)
Electronic are not available with the engine, so I think I've to buy it or a similar new ECO aftermarket

BTW maybe it is more simple to increase the displacement of actual 2.7L up to 2.9L or 3L changing the pistons...?
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby xranalli » Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:06 pm

...sorry, I make a mistake
it is a Safrane V6 IE 3.0L engine...
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby Tony Smith » Tue Dec 27, 2016 2:04 pm

Safrane engine isn't as simple. It's fitted transversely in the Safrane so quite a few other bits need changing. Distributor and water pump to name just 2. Sandwich plate will need to be swapped too for an A310 one. Are you sure you had to change this on mine Lee?
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby xranalli » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:32 pm

Uhm...it seems a complicate or not cheap modification.
My scope is increase the power up to 200Hp in a reliable way, so in my mind first of all I should increase the displacement
I checked the dimensions of PRV engine and I learned that 2.85L and 3.0L has 73mm like 2.7L, so just the diameter changes
do you know if it is possible to increase the displacement replacing only pistons and cilinders?
Otherway I have not fear to work on new engine from Safrane but, of course, I don't want spend energy (and money) without to understand all the options :thinking
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby Tony Smith » Tue Dec 27, 2016 3:46 pm

If you have to buy parts to increase capacity and then have someone remove and strip engine fit new liners, oversize pistons, you'd probably want a higher lift cam too as you won't make 200bhp just changing the capacity. You'll probably part with 3k unless your doing the build yourself. If the engine is in good condition I'd stick with the standard lump and do some traditional tuning. A cam, a bit of headwork, a Holley carb and 3 branch exhaust manifolds will get you to about 190 bhp. Still going to cost money though.
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby clee » Tue Dec 27, 2016 4:58 pm

No,lost in translation Tony.To swap into A310 you need to swap the plate.I was on about the wiring for ECU/Fueling mods .
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby xranalli » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:39 pm

..I already have a nice stainless steel exhaust piping, so 5Hp more than standard one should be, maybe

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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby xranalli » Tue Dec 27, 2016 5:45 pm

So my guess is
increment of displacementent +17Hp (like 3.0L PRV)
cams and head works 10-15Hp
Holley carb 15Hp
The sum should be 195-200Hp

I don't know if odd firing gives problems
and I don't know if it is simple to increase the displacement (please confirm)
who can supply cams?
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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby MFaulks » Tue Dec 27, 2016 6:00 pm

.
Personally, I would do as Lee and Tony suggest. The odd fire PRV is longer stroke and smaller bore, associated with that the block is machined differently to the later even fire PRVs, and the larger bore liners and pistons will not simply drop in... you will need to machine the block. Numbers simply put on the page, but do hide considerable practical detail... if you do the research you will find.

My suggestion for a road car with 200hp, would be use the 3ltr even engine, and keep to a know recipe... alternaively find an OE 24V n/a and put that in... but 12V option as below...

So, 12V even-fire 3ltr- to cut to the quick for you, bit like visiting McDonalds for a pre cooked meal... get the larger capacity even fire Safran PRV, and just do the following:

1. Buy Safran 12V 3ltr even-fire engine, and get the ecu (Fenix 3A) with it as a starter for 10.
2. Dismantle the bottom end only to change the main cap support, and engine mount plate. Do same with your current engine, use your current plate on the 3ltr even-fire to rebuild. This is straight forward enough... again, simple words on a page, you need to research. This will allow the Safran engine to be fitted / bolted to your engine frame in the A310.
3. Take heads off, change cams for the right uprated items, replace rocker arms, modify heads for increased compression rebuild. No porting required for your power goal of 200hp.
4. Add throttle bodies, injectors appropriately sized, and nice headers.
5. Add high pressure fuel system.
6. GTA Turbo flywheel if using Renix / Fenix ecu.
7. Joint it all up with the ecu... job done

If you don't fancy that, pop down Macky D and ask for a nice cheese burger and fries, and contemplate....

Proof - 3ltr even-fire PRV V6 from a Citroën I think in this case, old motor, 174k km, bottom end not touched, pistons not removed, all left as it was... items 2 to 7 above applied.. no porting, nothing fancy, just big throttle bodies, cams, and headers...

Result 238hp, on old tired piston rings and valve guides, smile :-P

20160812_113822.jpg


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... A diamond is only a piece of coal that did well under pressure... PRV afflicted, may be I need to squeeze harder!!!!

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Re: Re-engine, V6 more powerfull for A310

Postby xranalli » Tue Dec 27, 2016 8:08 pm

Thanks, this recipe is very interesting :up
Instead of that, if I would to mantain the old odd fire what can I do?
Only because I want to consider all options :thinking
If I remember well this engine in rally configuration had 240bhp...


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